i think michelle obama in all sorts of ways. so i think what the trend here is that as we get closer and closer to the current time, first ladies have a big influence on their husbands. >> host: what was mamie eisenhower's role? >> guest: she said, she used to say i was invited -- in eight years i was in to value office, four times, all four times i was invited. one way their marriage worked was they really did not discuss, you know, nuclear weapons policy or, you know, she felt there was a division of labor, and they actually had quite a good marriage, but it did not rest on being political partners. >> host: did bess truman hate being first lady as much as it seems? >> guest: i don't think it -- i think she protested too much a little bit. although at the very beginning she went right back to independence and did not come back for a long time, and it was very upsetting to her husband. she did not give press conferences. she was very private. one source of this was when harry truman was about to be named vice president,1944 in